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Not Ok's avatar

Any thoughts on Tongkat Ali for post menopausal hormone replacement?

I am 59. Have done BHRT for past 3 yrs in varying formulations..actively followed and managed with good results.

Currently on 25 mg Estrodiol patch biweekly and 100mg progesterone @ hs..

Just wondering about weaning off prescriptions for a more natural product.

Great thread and article.

Thank you!

Pill_Apostate's avatar

There you are

Katherine's avatar

AWESOME. Agreed: "Yoho comment: While I view abortions as unfortunate, I have twice benefitted from liberal abortion laws and do not share Paul’s blanket “right to life” views."

Dingo Roberts's avatar

Generally great article/info. I appreciate the potential benefits of bioidentical HRT, but I'm also convinced that this sort of artificial, blunt management of a still just partially understood endocrine system comes with its own risks, both known and unknown. Thankfully, my wife at 64 went through menopause like a breeze, takes no meds, and is in great, glowing health due to a very healthy lifestyle.

Speaking of 64. I'm blown away by the Janice bio. Breast implants are a notorious health disaster for so many women, which would make for a very good topic for future discussion. As a man, I have absolutely no idea what the draw is, other than for women who've had mastectomies (partly due to the butchering approach to healthcare). Janice improved greatly after she began HRT . . . and the removal of a potential source of the same symptoms that the hormones were ostensibly fixing. Viewing her re-implantations as evidence of success is bizarre. A healthy, confident, indignant rejection of them would be far better evidence of success IMO.

AJoy's avatar

Absolutely agree!

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

great comment, and I wrote about breast implant illness here: https://robertyoho.substack.com/p/265-shaher-khan-mdthe-foremost-plastic?utm_source=publication-search

I wrote Butchered before I understood all this.

Dingo Roberts's avatar

Oh good, I have to read that!

DistantSun's avatar

How do I find a medical doctor who knows what s/he is doing, with respect to hormone therapy and dosing? The last time someone gave me bioidentical progesterone and estrogen supplementation, I developed fibroids so large that I had to have an embolization to shrink them. I have shied away from HRT ever since, and I have symptoms of low hormones.

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

Worldlinkmedical.com has docs who were trained like me.

If I were you, I would have taken much more progesterone.

Read Hormone Secrets.

DistantSun's avatar

Do you offer virtual consults?

DistantSun's avatar

Thank you! I really need progesterone but am afraid to self-dose.

Janice Melonic's avatar

What about a 72 yo who had a complete hysterectomy for ovarian ca ? Is HRT ( as natural as possible) recommended ?

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

If I were you, I would try testosterone and progesterone. Both suppress ovarian cancer. And I would get on a chlorine dioxide program.

NinaG's avatar

I was on “The Pill” for over twenty years of my life. Never felt really good, but I didn’t even know it at the time. At 45, I stopped the pill and all hell broke loose. I basically shoved myself into instant menopause and things got very ugly. Fortunately, I found a wise, functional medicine doctor who started me on Bio-Identical HRT, and my life changed immensely! It is a crime that doctors encourage young women to take the pill…it should be outlawed! Had I known the damage I was causing myself, I would have never gone down that road. My Fiancé, (Dr. Ned Vessey, yes, you know him!) is also now on HRT and he is also doing very well!

Vivian's avatar

Hi Dr. Yoho, The two times I have using bioidentical creams in my 50's and 60's for about a year each time, I end up with thyroiditis. My T3 and T4 are super high with high thyroid antibodies and hypothyroid symptoms. When I stop the hormones, I get my energy back and my hypo symptoms go away. I do have your hormone book and I am wondering if it is the route that's the problem since you advocate for oral preparations. Thank you!

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

this is beyond my expertise sorry. The thyroid stuff is complex. See Dr. Rouzier's associate, Dr. Wilgarde, if you can get to Palm Springs. 760 320 4292

Dr Linda's avatar

What a terrific post. I have been on “natural” HRT for 4years. I started with shot but have moved onto cream.

I am so glad I took this step. My mind is better, my emotions are more stable.

ABIGAIL REPORTS's avatar

I used foams. Worked very well. Also emptying the bladder and using a washcloth after. STD's were not a factor, as I just wanted space between the babies. KY can be used as a lubricant.

Note for older ladies: We get saggy boobs. We sweat under them. Use a deodorant rub under them daily, I like the clinical type it lasts 72 hours. Get a Yeast infection use Coconut oil. Buy cotton sleep bras for daily wear that have a front closure, it helps keep you from sweating. Better than the underwires which are not cotton.

Immaculata's avatar

array of websites [make two pills available]—mifepristone and misoprostol—that will induce a miscarriage when used in the first trimester of pregnancy “and possibly even later. The so-called self-managed abortion is therefore an option at least six weeks further into a pregnancy than the controversial new Texas law’s six-week “heartbeat” cutoff for an abortion at a clinic. Though people in other states have several websites to choose from, Texans can visit Aid Access, a website that provides the pills for $105 or less based on income.”

These pills are Dangerous- just No to the infantacide pill

There is no help for a woman at home who uses these whatsoever

And no counseling on the after effects

there is help if you get pregnant

Abortion is an unthinkable option

Cells that grow into humans and are citizens aren’t expendable.

Thank you for your research.

Loretta's avatar

Thank you. I love you for saying this.

Just_Henry's avatar

For a woman to obtain the maximum benefits that semen offers, is vaginal or oral application advised? Asking for a friend😁

Nina's avatar

I was a wreck before I started hormone therapy. I will never quit. I feel so much better. Prescription HRT is easier to dose precisely but estradiol and progesterone creams can be purchased over the counter and online. I don’t think testosterone creams or gels can be purchased without a prescription though which is really a shame.

Dr Linda's avatar

“Controlled” substance. Yes, it is unfortunate

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

estrogen and progesterone creams help symptoms but not cardiovascular disease

STH's avatar

Two different naturopaths I’ve gone to do not agree with your statement on the creams Dr. Yoho. Do you have have links to studies I could share with them?

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

read Hormone Secrets

Dr Linda's avatar

I switched to a cream with estrogen and testosterone from injections. My testosterone and estrogen levels remained stable vis bloid tests.

If there is an issue, I would lije to know as well

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

what were the levels

testosterone cream is fine if high enough concentrations are used

levels should be around 250 ng/ml

Julia B's avatar

So my compounded Estrogen/Progesterone/Testosterone cream is not as effective as oral?

Dr Linda's avatar

Mine seems to be according to blood work

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

what do your blood levels show?

Progesterone should be 10-20 ng/ml

Estrogen should approach 100.

Susie AH's avatar

At the age of 18 I went on the pill and 6 weeks later I developed type 1 diabetes. The two were most definitely connected but who cared? I have been cautious about hormonal treatment ever since. I’m now 65 and through the menopause, have a great sex life, no vaginal fragility and am a firm believer in the more sex you have the better it is for one’s health. I found a herbal supplement called Amata Life very helpful to rebalance my hormones and improve my bladder but don’t seem to need even that now. As for glowing skin I heartily recommend methylene Blue and apart from rejuvenating my skin, it has reversed my greying hair!

Dr Linda's avatar

I agree MB is remarkable. My eyes and lashes are dark. I have a lit of white hair, however after years of MB, dark hair is growing.

VickieDawn's avatar

I'm 65, been widowed for 7 years. I've never taken ongoing prescription drugs. I just don't trust them. But having something to help my skin glow that wouldn't be bad for my health and well being, that would be great. So is there another way to get this Hormone Therapy without a Prescription?

Butterfly2510's avatar

Yes. Try Bezwecken Transitions cream from Amazon. They’ve been selling OTC hormonal products for women for over 2 5 years. I don’t work for them by the way. I discovered them because I bought museley anti anging skincare from a Facebook ad for $70 for less than one OUNCE!! I consider this company one of the biggest online skincare scams out there. I am furious that I bought their product. Nowhere in the literature and nowhere online does it tell you how many ounces you’re getting. It only tells you that you’re getting a two month supply. I’m hoping to get my money back. But regardless, I have found other skin care products that one can use to achieve the same results. And by the way, I did have some good results! take pictures of your journey of before and after taking the skin care so you will know for yourself. I can say it’s pretty amazing the results I have achieved. They also sell some other products for vaginal dryness, etc. unfortunately, none of their products have testosterone in them. But one product that I’m getting ready to try for vaginal dryness does have estradiol, DHEA and progesterone. I have had no problems going through menopause, except for terrible vaginal dryness. So I’m a little bit leery to start with hormones. But I want to do it so I can enjoy sex with my husband again!!

ABIGAIL REPORTS's avatar

76. Married, he is non-functional at 83. I've tried them, they hate me. Shut my bowels down. Tried Black Cohosh and Prime Rose same reaction. Already have gastro issues, and don't need more.

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

You have to do what works

VickieDawn's avatar

I was thinking of trying a Pregnenolone Topical Gel, by pass the digestive system. Robert can you recommend a brand?

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

no idea but you can buy the powder inexpensively

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

from a draft post:

Hormone replacement with or without using a doctor

As Rick Zingale told me, “Seeing a doctor entails kamikaze-level risks.” Fortunately, basic hormone supplementation can be safely and legally started without them. Hormones are so harmless that with only a few caveats, they should be over the counter. Read Hormone Secrets or Unbekoming’s excellent summary if you have not gotten that memo.

DHEA, pregnenolone, and melatonin are available without a prescription. See the links HERE, HERE, and HERE for the best places to buy them. Background information about melatonin is HERE, and the other two are described in Hormone Secrets. Pregnenolone supposedly helps mental alertness, and some people swear by it. However, my mentors were not impressed with it if patients were already on testosterone, and I always prescribed that instead.

The links above are for economical powder supplements. If you purchase a $20 digital scale, you can approximate the desired dose using eighth or quarter teaspoons. Perfect exactitude is unnecessary.

DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) has mild effects similar to testosterone. The best dose is unknown because no significant toxicity has ever been found. Although the standard approach for women is to start with about ten milligrams a day, my hormone guru, Neal Rouzier, MD, often gives 400 to 600 mg daily to senior women. He says this makes many of them feel so good that they dance in the Palm Spring Follies. Side effects are almost unknown.

Senior men who are not yet taking testosterone often get a big lift from DHEA. The usual recommendation is to take a hundred milligrams to start, but this is waaay too conservative. Again, the top end of dosing is unclear, and I would not hesitate to recommend gradually increasing to 1000 mg a day if I were still seeing patients. If any side effects appear, reduce the dose. The powders make even this large amount economical.

Those of us already taking testosterone may not get as big a response from DHEA, but when I started it recently, I felt better.

If you know a doctor who will write prescriptions for you and you are willing to take responsibility, read Hormone Secrets twice. Then, ask them to prescribe the following from the Anazao compounding pharmacy or another nationwide source. Ninety percent of women need exactly the doses below. If you are post-menopausal, labs are helpful but not required.

Oral estradiol 2 mg every morning

Oral progesterone 200 mg at bedtime. Decrease or increase until you sleep well without a hangover. The maximum dose is five 200 mg capsules. It is harmless.

Testosterone cream, 50-100 mg per cc concentration. Women start with a half-pea-sized volume and increase or decrease it until they get the desired effect or have about a 200 ng/dl level. Acne and hair growth are occasional side effects. Most people tolerate these for the benefits.

Study the caveats in Hormone Secrets. The most important one is never to take estrogen without progesterone. “Unopposed” estrogen increases uterine cancer rates.

For women who want an experienced MD to supervise a full hormone program, visit WorldLinkMedical.com. I am among the providers there, and Dr. Neal Rouzier trained us all.

Thyroid care requires an experienced hormone specialist. Endocrinologists are generally too conservative and often underdose their patients for reasons described in Hormone Secrets. Despite needing professional help, you still should understand the thyroid chapter there, and I recommend you also study THIS website. Hormone replacement with or without using a doctor

As Rick Zingale told me, “Seeing a doctor entails kamikaze-level risks.” Fortunately, basic hormone supplementation can be safely and legally started without them. Hormones are so harmless that with only a few caveats, they should be over the counter. Read Hormone Secrets or Unbekoming’s excellent summary if you have not gotten that memo.

DHEA, pregnenolone, and melatonin are available without a prescription. See the links HERE, HERE, and HERE for the best places to buy them. Background information about melatonin is HERE, and the other two are described in Hormone Secrets. Pregnenolone supposedly helps mental alertness, and some people swear by it. However, my mentors were not impressed with it if patients were already on testosterone, and I always prescribed that instead.

The links above are for economical powder supplements. If you purchase a $20 digital scale, you can approximate the desired dose using eighth or quarter teaspoons. Perfect exactitude is unnecessary.

DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) has mild effects similar to testosterone. The best dose is unknown because no significant toxicity has ever been found. Although the standard approach for women is to start with about ten milligrams a day, my hormone guru, Neal Rouzier, MD, often gives 400 to 600 mg daily to senior women. He says this makes many of them feel so good that they dance in the Palm Spring Follies. Side effects are almost unknown.

Senior men who are not yet taking testosterone often get a big lift from DHEA. The usual recommendation is to take a hundred milligrams to start, but this is waaay too conservative. Again, the top end of dosing is unclear, and I would not hesitate to recommend gradually increasing to 1000 mg a day if I were still seeing patients. If any side effects appear, reduce the dose. The powders make even this large amount economical.

Those of us already taking testosterone may not get as big a response from DHEA, but when I started it recently, I felt better.

If you know a doctor who will write prescriptions for you and you are willing to take responsibility, read Hormone Secrets twice. Then, ask them to prescribe the following from the Anazao compounding pharmacy or another nationwide source. Ninety percent of women need exactly the doses below. If you are post-menopausal, labs are helpful but not required.

Oral estradiol 2 mg every morning

Oral progesterone 200 mg at bedtime. Decrease or increase until you sleep well without a hangover. The maximum dose is five 200 mg capsules. It is harmless.

Testosterone cream, 50-100 mg per cc concentration. Women start with a half-pea-sized volume and increase or decrease it until they get the desired effect or have about a 200 ng/dl level. Acne and hair growth are occasional side effects. Most people tolerate these for the benefits.

Study the caveats in Hormone Secrets. The most important one is never to take estrogen without progesterone. “Unopposed” estrogen increases uterine cancer rates.

For women who want an experienced MD to supervise a full hormone program, visit WorldLinkMedical.com. I am among the providers there, and Dr. Neal Rouzier trained us all.

Thyroid care requires an experienced hormone specialist. Endocrinologists are generally too conservative and often underdose their patients for reasons described in Hormone Secrets. Despite needing professional help, you still should understand the thyroid chapter there, and I recommend you also study THIS website.

NinaG's avatar

Dr. Rouzier is theee best! I had tried the Estrogen pellets and my body exploded. Dr. Rouzier straightened all of that out for me and I am still on the regimen (transdermal Estradiol) he placed me on almost 10 years ago.

Robert Yoho, MD's avatar

you must do what makes you feel well

however, he is the one who taught me that the orals are superior for Cardiovasc health. You might try adding an oral estradiol

NinaG's avatar

Oral Estradiol turns me into the UniRoyal Tire Man (severe bloating), hence the transdermal.

JSR's avatar

I was on the pill for 30 wonderful years… it definitely didn’t make this happen lol.. “On the Pill, women are less sexual, more obsessed with safety, and less confident”…. The exact opposite. I went off it at 39, got pregnant at 40 and have 2 fantastic children. Everyone is different