Generally good responses to people's concerns. However, I think if you are going to title something 'A Study in Hysteria' it was a predictable outcome that there would be significant push back if there was anything of merit to be concerned about in the situation. And there clearly is merit for concern which is acknowledged in the article and these statements. So why the assumption that "Highly skilled hazardous material professionals are on the scene, and I assume they are trying to make the best decisions." I have zero latitude for those with 'good intentions' anymore. Zero. Do your job with excellence or find a less critical field.
I love a reasoned approach, as well as one that challenges my assumptions about a situation. So thanks for being brave enough to voice something this controversial. It would still be my opinion though that the writeup granted far too much latitude to the legitimacy of the EPA efforts in spite of their clear track record of being a captured agency- like every other U.S. regulatory agency I know of.
I am an MD with a Masters degree in chemistry. My graduate research paper was on 2,3,7,8 Tetrachlorodibenzodioxin (2,3,7,8 TCDD). I have several comments specifically on the dioxin matter in this event.
1) The specific reactions that create dioxins are different for every type of dioxin, so it is hyperbolic to assert that everyone in the vast exposure zone will be intoxicated by dioxin.
2) On the opposite side of this, the "controlled burn" was only controlled in the size of the fire, and an open burn of vinly chloride CANNOT control the type of created contaminants, virtually all of which will have varying degrees of toxicity.
3) Different dioxins have different levels of toxicity, with the 2,3,7,8 TCDD the most toxic. This is the version that most people refer to when they say "dioxin", but it is not the most prevalent product in open burn of vinyl chloride, to the best of my knowledge.
4) Even if only minute levels of dioxins are released in a burn, the toxicity of the agent is so high that horrible consequences can result.
5) The size of the burn was enormous (as seen from space) and the black cloud produced was a Pandora's Box of dioxins and nearly as toxic non-dioxin chemistry that you will, hopefully, ever see.
6) No-one, to my knowledge, has even begun to approach the actual analysis of the scope and severity of the catastrophe. This is typical in the current la-la-land bureaucracy that passes for a government. Just have the press write more articles to make it go away, magic!, it's not a problem any more.
7) They don't want to have to mount a response because they no longer have the capacity to. The frank incompetence is what they ignore on one hand, and deny on the other. The widespread denial that our system is collapsing is just a manifestation of the drug addled populace which cannot cope with the hostile realities that we are facing. Voting the bums out will no longer solve anything. There is nobody coming to the rescue.
Any thoughts on this post on PHOSGENE and mustard gas? Could this be true? All I can think of is the late Dr. Hulda Clark and her constant admonitions about mustard chemicals relative to cancer.
I do not have confirmation of the presence of phosgene on the train. I would not doubt the phosgene or similarly noxious and toxic substances were created in the open burn, so it would be difficult to prove that phosgene was being carried on the basis of ground or water samples containing traces of phosgene, unless it was found in overwhelmingly demonstrable amounts.
We ever so desperately need just one moral person from the old Dow-Mallinckrodt plant in Madison, Illinois, to tell us what agents, if any, were loaded on the train.
Here, from Shimatsu, Part Two: Chemical detritus from the old Dow plant?
"As this analysis proceeds, there is every indication that the most fatal of chemicals, the Unholy Trinity of nerve gas warfare (sarin, tabun and VX), have been redacted from the EPA manifest of burnt cargo at East Palestine."
Thank you. I am not able to match your science but HAZMAT procedures have a process and burning was never one of them in my experience especially that chemical type.
In a time of insanity, your reasonable, evidence based writing is refreshing. If we can’t at least stay calm and logical, we have no hope of finding solutions or even believing they exist at all.
Can anyone recognize we are in the process of ideological subversion presented by Yuri Bezmenov, ex KGB?
1.Demoralization. For this step in the process, 15 – 20 years are needed. That is the amount of time required to educate a generation. Helping along the way are media and teachers who have become sympathetic (consciously or unconsciously) to the theoretical causes of the subverting nation. Bezmenov claims that the USSR was surprised at how easy this phase was in the US.
2. Destabilization. Following the earlier phase, this is a two to five year period to change the target country’s foreign relations, defense, and economy.
3. Crisis. Perhaps six weeks of chaos as a climatic turning point.
4. Normalization. This stage changes the appreciation of what the status quo looks like. Bezmenov’s description of this phase also includes military take over.
Watch his G. Edward Griffin interview sometime, it is a historic warning.
Nice reference- Yuri's interviews were huge and are extremely beneficial to seeing the mechanisms by which communist based ideological subversion was (and is!) used.
The recent years events however, also indicate some aspects that weren't covered by Yuri, esp as regards how lock-stepped much of the globe was. For answers there- I highly recommend following international immunities. Its a more concrete trail than 'following the money'. https://www.coreysdigs.com/u-s/laundering-with-immunity-the-control-framework-part-1/
A week before the derailment, everyone in Palestine was provided with an ID for emergency personnel to track them. In Jan, the CDC changed the allowable exposure for vinyl chloride on a draft for public comment, final version in May.
Pete didn't show up till today. The entire reaction was one of complete I DON'T CARE ABOUT AMERICA. I CARE ABOUT UKRAINE. Well, he is Not the President of Ukraine. He had time to order this atrocity. What to Know About the Lethal Removal of New Mexico’s Feral Cows https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what-to-know-about-the-lethal-removal-of-new-mexico-s-feral-cows/ar-AA17CkWa note it is MSM news. That area is another disaster area. As is the Dust Bowl that took out Texas' cotton crop. It looks more and more like FDR's Great Depression.
I read somewhere (I can't find the reference though) that the classification of "derailment" is pretty broad... meaning it's not what a layman might think (piles of rail cars strewn around the sides). So that 1000 very likely includes stuff where the train _technically_ derailed, but not "strewn about the countryside" as it were. So I think Buttigeig's claim is probably _technically_ correct. :shrug:
Correct. Accidents need to meet a reporting threshold to be sent to the FRA for databasing. So if just one wheel “hits the ground” and no injures that is a non reportable.
"Many more details will appear in the NTSB's final report..." But when might we see that final report? No final report issued yet regarding the Sept 2021 Amtrak derailment at Joplin, MT. https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20230221.aspx
One of the criticisms levied against NTSB is the sometimes very long time it takes to see the final report. It deals with lab testing, hearings (if any), etc. The Federal Railroad Administration also does investigations typically taking less time. Those reports are are on their site (last time I looked). Might suggest looking to EPA for the environmental element.
Biden like always was very slow to react, a disaster of this level needs Fema on the scene as soon as possible. Then he ignores the seriousness to go to Ukraine to give away more of our tax $$ to Ukraine. That small plane that went down in AR carried the crew sent to check it out. the Ohio Disaster. That was learned later. Tennessee lost 2 National Guards in that flight. People see on TV he doesn't care about the disasters in America. It is his job. If he couldn't go Harris who just had a HUD speaking engagement could have gone. I can see not wanting to get in the way, but 12 days had passed. Then he does a fake photo op and falls UP the stairs of AF1. People are hurting badly over his Economic policies. His ignoring disasters just adds to it. He's either in Delaware or elsewhere, with very few days in the WH to sign EO'S WE LOATHE. Dr. Jill was on her way to Africa. Not one of them seemed to care.
In 2010 we had days of heavy rain, and the levy broke, it flooded much of the town of Millington, TN, and most of the South side of the US NAVAL BASE, BUPERS. The town stunk of sewage, homes were damaged, and ONE LONE FEMA BUS was sent. The Navy called in the big buses of Serve Pro for clean up, as well as what the Service men did. It damaged the Housing, Commissary, Exchange, and Pharmacy. The base was off-limits for months. The President in the year 2010 was Barack Obama. It seems to be a pattern of Democrat presidents ignoring disasters in their own country. Lots of photos. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=millington+th+flood+naval+base&va=b&t=hr&iax=images&ia=images.
Thankfully the Fire at Oak Ridge National Laboratory was contained quickly, and not a threat to the public. But that was due to extensive training the personnel do.
Oh so it was an unfortunate accident. I suppose the planeload of investigators that died in an aircraft accident in Arkansas was an unfortunate incident.
Dioxin is a by product of an uncontrolled burn of some of the chemicals in that train.
This was not a controlled burn. Evidence is plain as day. Black soot cloud. Black soot indicates the product you are trying to burn is in the air and not burned at all. A controlled burn is done in a furnace at a controlled temperature, controlled oxygen and controlled amount of product. This burn was at best a cowboy fuckit move. At worst a conspiracy to rid the country of Trump supporters and poison vast areas of land. One only has to look at the vaccine deaths in Republican states to see they are out to kill any conservative they can. Is this just another one of these little pieces of getting rid of the conservative bubble.
By the way people can still smell this shit in the air.
And the black smoke was just another way to spread poison and dioxin further into the land. The problem was not contained at all.
Buttigieg is either an idiot or a pawn to help in the extermination.
Generally good responses to people's concerns. However, I think if you are going to title something 'A Study in Hysteria' it was a predictable outcome that there would be significant push back if there was anything of merit to be concerned about in the situation. And there clearly is merit for concern which is acknowledged in the article and these statements. So why the assumption that "Highly skilled hazardous material professionals are on the scene, and I assume they are trying to make the best decisions." I have zero latitude for those with 'good intentions' anymore. Zero. Do your job with excellence or find a less critical field.
I love a reasoned approach, as well as one that challenges my assumptions about a situation. So thanks for being brave enough to voice something this controversial. It would still be my opinion though that the writeup granted far too much latitude to the legitimacy of the EPA efforts in spite of their clear track record of being a captured agency- like every other U.S. regulatory agency I know of.
thanks everyone needs a little clickbait and you admit that hysteria is our times on every side
hold tight and give me a few days
getting to JFK and 9/11 after a less controversial post to calm everyone down
best
All due respect, sir, but I don't believe you understand what clickbait is.
Robert,
I am an MD with a Masters degree in chemistry. My graduate research paper was on 2,3,7,8 Tetrachlorodibenzodioxin (2,3,7,8 TCDD). I have several comments specifically on the dioxin matter in this event.
1) The specific reactions that create dioxins are different for every type of dioxin, so it is hyperbolic to assert that everyone in the vast exposure zone will be intoxicated by dioxin.
2) On the opposite side of this, the "controlled burn" was only controlled in the size of the fire, and an open burn of vinly chloride CANNOT control the type of created contaminants, virtually all of which will have varying degrees of toxicity.
3) Different dioxins have different levels of toxicity, with the 2,3,7,8 TCDD the most toxic. This is the version that most people refer to when they say "dioxin", but it is not the most prevalent product in open burn of vinyl chloride, to the best of my knowledge.
4) Even if only minute levels of dioxins are released in a burn, the toxicity of the agent is so high that horrible consequences can result.
5) The size of the burn was enormous (as seen from space) and the black cloud produced was a Pandora's Box of dioxins and nearly as toxic non-dioxin chemistry that you will, hopefully, ever see.
6) No-one, to my knowledge, has even begun to approach the actual analysis of the scope and severity of the catastrophe. This is typical in the current la-la-land bureaucracy that passes for a government. Just have the press write more articles to make it go away, magic!, it's not a problem any more.
7) They don't want to have to mount a response because they no longer have the capacity to. The frank incompetence is what they ignore on one hand, and deny on the other. The widespread denial that our system is collapsing is just a manifestation of the drug addled populace which cannot cope with the hostile realities that we are facing. Voting the bums out will no longer solve anything. There is nobody coming to the rescue.
Thank you!
Any thoughts on this post on PHOSGENE and mustard gas? Could this be true? All I can think of is the late Dr. Hulda Clark and her constant admonitions about mustard chemicals relative to cancer.
https://rense.com/general97/chemical-weaponry-destined-for-ukraine-ignited-in-east-palestine.php
I do not have confirmation of the presence of phosgene on the train. I would not doubt the phosgene or similarly noxious and toxic substances were created in the open burn, so it would be difficult to prove that phosgene was being carried on the basis of ground or water samples containing traces of phosgene, unless it was found in overwhelmingly demonstrable amounts.
Thank you for the kindness of your reply.
We ever so desperately need just one moral person from the old Dow-Mallinckrodt plant in Madison, Illinois, to tell us what agents, if any, were loaded on the train.
Here, from Shimatsu, Part Two: Chemical detritus from the old Dow plant?
https://rense.com/general97/chemical-weaponry-destined-for-ukraine-ignited-in-east-palestine-pt2.php
"As this analysis proceeds, there is every indication that the most fatal of chemicals, the Unholy Trinity of nerve gas warfare (sarin, tabun and VX), have been redacted from the EPA manifest of burnt cargo at East Palestine."
Precautions principle applies and justifies evacuations being done.
Thank you. I am not able to match your science but HAZMAT procedures have a process and burning was never one of them in my experience especially that chemical type.
Best thing is... it's bringing me closer and closer to God. I need that.
In a time of insanity, your reasonable, evidence based writing is refreshing. If we can’t at least stay calm and logical, we have no hope of finding solutions or even believing they exist at all.
Can anyone recognize we are in the process of ideological subversion presented by Yuri Bezmenov, ex KGB?
1.Demoralization. For this step in the process, 15 – 20 years are needed. That is the amount of time required to educate a generation. Helping along the way are media and teachers who have become sympathetic (consciously or unconsciously) to the theoretical causes of the subverting nation. Bezmenov claims that the USSR was surprised at how easy this phase was in the US.
2. Destabilization. Following the earlier phase, this is a two to five year period to change the target country’s foreign relations, defense, and economy.
3. Crisis. Perhaps six weeks of chaos as a climatic turning point.
4. Normalization. This stage changes the appreciation of what the status quo looks like. Bezmenov’s description of this phase also includes military take over.
Watch his G. Edward Griffin interview sometime, it is a historic warning.
Nice reference- Yuri's interviews were huge and are extremely beneficial to seeing the mechanisms by which communist based ideological subversion was (and is!) used.
The recent years events however, also indicate some aspects that weren't covered by Yuri, esp as regards how lock-stepped much of the globe was. For answers there- I highly recommend following international immunities. Its a more concrete trail than 'following the money'. https://www.coreysdigs.com/u-s/laundering-with-immunity-the-control-framework-part-1/
A week before the derailment, everyone in Palestine was provided with an ID for emergency personnel to track them. In Jan, the CDC changed the allowable exposure for vinyl chloride on a draft for public comment, final version in May.
no way to tell about this
4 months before actually. A week before was the CDC update on vinyl chloride. ;)
Check out https://www.gilmermirror.com/2023/02/20/inside-job-cdc-changed-toxicity-info-on-vinyl-chloride-days-before-derailment/ if you want a summary look at what was changed.
Thanks for addressing this. I haven’t read the original post yet. Does he confirm or deny the Pete Buttigeig (sp) claim
sorry I do not look at mainstream. too busy here. best
Pete didn't show up till today. The entire reaction was one of complete I DON'T CARE ABOUT AMERICA. I CARE ABOUT UKRAINE. Well, he is Not the President of Ukraine. He had time to order this atrocity. What to Know About the Lethal Removal of New Mexico’s Feral Cows https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what-to-know-about-the-lethal-removal-of-new-mexico-s-feral-cows/ar-AA17CkWa note it is MSM news. That area is another disaster area. As is the Dust Bowl that took out Texas' cotton crop. It looks more and more like FDR's Great Depression.
He didn't receive a warm welcome either.
...that there are over 1000 train derailments a year, about 3 per day?
I read somewhere (I can't find the reference though) that the classification of "derailment" is pretty broad... meaning it's not what a layman might think (piles of rail cars strewn around the sides). So that 1000 very likely includes stuff where the train _technically_ derailed, but not "strewn about the countryside" as it were. So I think Buttigeig's claim is probably _technically_ correct. :shrug:
Correct. Accidents need to meet a reporting threshold to be sent to the FRA for databasing. So if just one wheel “hits the ground” and no injures that is a non reportable.
Here is the NTSB initial report. Lot more info. https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD23MR005.aspx
It feels like we're in an extended episode of The Twilight Zone.
NEW SUBSTACK RELEASE. The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street. Twilight Zone meets the Covid Tyranny. https://turfseer.substack.com/p/the-monsters-are-due-on-maple-street
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"Many more details will appear in the NTSB's final report..." But when might we see that final report? No final report issued yet regarding the Sept 2021 Amtrak derailment at Joplin, MT. https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20230221.aspx
I think it takes months but ask Fred
Here is EPA's East Palestine, Ohio Train Derailment Emergency Response site: https://www.epa.gov/oh/east-palestine-ohio-train-derailment-emergency-response
One of the criticisms levied against NTSB is the sometimes very long time it takes to see the final report. It deals with lab testing, hearings (if any), etc. The Federal Railroad Administration also does investigations typically taking less time. Those reports are are on their site (last time I looked). Might suggest looking to EPA for the environmental element.
Biden like always was very slow to react, a disaster of this level needs Fema on the scene as soon as possible. Then he ignores the seriousness to go to Ukraine to give away more of our tax $$ to Ukraine. That small plane that went down in AR carried the crew sent to check it out. the Ohio Disaster. That was learned later. Tennessee lost 2 National Guards in that flight. People see on TV he doesn't care about the disasters in America. It is his job. If he couldn't go Harris who just had a HUD speaking engagement could have gone. I can see not wanting to get in the way, but 12 days had passed. Then he does a fake photo op and falls UP the stairs of AF1. People are hurting badly over his Economic policies. His ignoring disasters just adds to it. He's either in Delaware or elsewhere, with very few days in the WH to sign EO'S WE LOATHE. Dr. Jill was on her way to Africa. Not one of them seemed to care.
In 2010 we had days of heavy rain, and the levy broke, it flooded much of the town of Millington, TN, and most of the South side of the US NAVAL BASE, BUPERS. The town stunk of sewage, homes were damaged, and ONE LONE FEMA BUS was sent. The Navy called in the big buses of Serve Pro for clean up, as well as what the Service men did. It damaged the Housing, Commissary, Exchange, and Pharmacy. The base was off-limits for months. The President in the year 2010 was Barack Obama. It seems to be a pattern of Democrat presidents ignoring disasters in their own country. Lots of photos. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=millington+th+flood+naval+base&va=b&t=hr&iax=images&ia=images.
Thankfully the Fire at Oak Ridge National Laboratory was contained quickly, and not a threat to the public. But that was due to extensive training the personnel do.
And Trump brings in truckloads of clean bottled water, the good kind, and bought the 1st Responders Big Macs. He looked as usual more Presidential.
Don't forget there were 3 train wrecks, 1 manufacturing fire, and 1 limber company fire in a matter of days of each other.
Another near a uranium plant. What is going on?
Biden is a criminal puppet.
Sabotage.
Oh so it was an unfortunate accident. I suppose the planeload of investigators that died in an aircraft accident in Arkansas was an unfortunate incident.
Dioxin is a by product of an uncontrolled burn of some of the chemicals in that train.
This was not a controlled burn. Evidence is plain as day. Black soot cloud. Black soot indicates the product you are trying to burn is in the air and not burned at all. A controlled burn is done in a furnace at a controlled temperature, controlled oxygen and controlled amount of product. This burn was at best a cowboy fuckit move. At worst a conspiracy to rid the country of Trump supporters and poison vast areas of land. One only has to look at the vaccine deaths in Republican states to see they are out to kill any conservative they can. Is this just another one of these little pieces of getting rid of the conservative bubble.
By the way people can still smell this shit in the air.
And the black smoke was just another way to spread poison and dioxin further into the land. The problem was not contained at all.
Buttigieg is either an idiot or a pawn to help in the extermination.
And please read the MSDS sheet. Burning this shit is dangerous.
https://katv.com/news/local/deputies-investigating-homicide-in-little-rock-near-site-of-plane-crash-arkansas-ound-a-body-on-west-line-road-near-the-3m-plant-pulaski-county-sheriffs-department-little-rock-police-the-investigation-is-ongoing
Well done and informative
The state of Ohio has a lot of coverage here: https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media
Here is EPA's East Palestine, Ohio Train Derailment Emergency Response site: https://www.epa.gov/oh/east-palestine-ohio-train-derailment-emergency-response